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Thread: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

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    Senior Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    Occupy Wall Street has galvanized the public attention in recent days, as people are fed up with a government they feel is swiftly becoming an oligarchy, with public policy being dictated by corporate interests. The protests have spread across the nation, and here in Miami, Bayfront Park is its home base...

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/0...ll-street.html


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    Editor Carlos Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    It's really impressive what has been taking place across the country. I wonder how long this will last, especially the protest in NYC once the cold sets in.

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    Senior Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    ...and how do you end it?

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    Senior Member Blackford Oakes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    The LA version has them protesting at the courthouse of the Michael Jackson Dr. case today. Assuming these anarchist are looking for warm weather options with Winter looming.

    I'm sick of these protestors already. Time to get the water canon out from storage.

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    rk
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    Have not been paying attention to it, but caught a few minutes on TV yesterday where someone was comparing it to the "Arab spring" demonstrations.

    Do you think Obama could go the way of Hosni Mubarak?

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    Senior Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    It would be great to see the country go back to being for the people instead of for the corporations, but I'm not sure who we would put in our current leaders' place....Ralph Nader?

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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    Actually, these groups aren't fed up so much with Obama as with corporations, banks and their lobbyists. Your average college student is graduating with an average debt of $30'000. They're mad at the blame for the current economic recession being put on public unions, teachers, firemen, etc. While no one points the finger at Wall Street. And what are the banks doing with the bail-out money? To not look too far, look at our civic leaders; they want to bring a casino giant like Genting to Miami. Why don't they try to convince Microsoft, Apple, Toyota, GE or other large corporations (that specialize in industry - technology) to come here.

    @ Blackford, none of those people are anarchists. Anarchists would be covering their faces. Most of those people are middle / working class. Anarchists are idiots from the upper class that want to rebel against their parents, but have never worked a day in their lives. This protest is not the battle of Seattle.

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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    I agree with Mario, this is no way an anti-Obama thing. I hardly think that the people who take issue with Wall Street's corporate culture are Republican voters.....

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    Editor Carlos Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    This is actually the lefty version of the Tea Party, but that doesn't mean everybody is a democrat or liberal. There are many libertarians who support Ron Paul involved in this as well.

    And there are republicans as well, but they in the minority.

    I've been following and covering it on my blog as it pertains to police abuse and videography and media coverage.

    http://bit.ly/qv9owB

    Most of these people voted for Obama but they are pissed off and disillusioned because he turned out to be not much different than Bush.

    But I doubt they will vote republican this election.

    They are sending a message to all politicians that they are sick of the bullshit.

    It's funny. I've been waiting for this moment all my life. And it caught me by surprise.
    laurab likes this.

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    Senior Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    Republicans, no, but Obama has ticked off a lot of his base with some very conservative actions. For example, his support of tar sands oil and the pipeline, his decision to halt the EPA regulation on smog standards, the secrecy of the fed investigations into the post BP spill/dolphin deaths in the Gulf, the continued existence of Gitmo, the continuing wars in the Middle East, his support of the Bush administration bail-outs of big banks, his failure to repeal the Bush-era tax cuts for the very wealthy, his decision to lower payroll taxes (and weaken Social Security), his extension of the Patriot Act, his willingness to do away with the public option for health care -- all those things he campaigned on. For a "socialist", he seems more like a Republican.
    Last edited by Doug; 10-03-2011 at 09:18 PM.
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    Editor Carlos Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    This is the rise of the creative class, which has been left disenfranchised and disillusioned by the new economy, which they were expected to reap in.

    Great article on that in Salon.

    http://entertainment.salon.com/2011/...rce=newsletter

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    Senior Member Blackford Oakes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    We get the picture that technology evolves the workplace. That's nothing new That same article could've been written when the Cotton gin was invented.

    The main issue is our government doesn't compete to keep manufacturing here at home. The irony is, these people will still be pissed because it's going to require that we increase incentives to be on par with our competitors. Nothing infuriates me more than seeing jobs go overseas, especially when a change of policy can swing more production our way.

    This case pisses me more off than anything .... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-e..._b_241944.html

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    Editor Matt Meltzer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    Well, any good leader knows how to compromise and will not cowtow to his base. Look at Clinton. Bush was terrible. Obama is just as bad, in different ways.


    This upcoming election is going to be very interesting. Though this occupy stuff won't last much past fall. Americans, we get mad. But we don't have the desperation of other countries to force any real change.

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    Editor Matt Meltzer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackford Oakes View Post
    We get the picture that technology evolves the workplace. That's nothing new That same article could've been written when the Cotton gin was invented.

    The main issue is our government doesn't compete to keep manufacturing here at home. The irony is, these people will still be pissed because it's going to require that we increase incentives to be on par with our competitors. Nothing infuriates me more than seeing jobs go overseas, especially when a change of policy can swing more production our way.

    This case pisses me more off than anything .... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-e..._b_241944.html
    How about an incentive like "If you employ X% of your workforce outside the US, you get no tax breaks whatsoever. Or a considerably higher tax rate." Have we not learned that giving corporations (some of them, not all) money doesn't necessarily equate to them creating jobs? You can't just cut taxes for them, it has to come with a condition.

    A true free market would tax them the same no matter what and let them make their own decisions. And I'm not against that either. But insisting that cutting corporate taxes will automatically creat jobs is naive.
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    Senior Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    The only reason why industry is going to places like Texas and other places that have tax incentives is because there are other places that don't. If the whole country starts offering the incentives, then the communities that are benefiting from them now will lose their edge, and those companies will move abroad to exploit cheap labor.

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    Senior Member Blackford Oakes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    Corporations care only about the bottom line. If cheap labor and lower taxes contribute to that end, that's where they'll go. We have the highest corporate tax. That's an incentive to do it cheaper elsewhere. The idea have having conditions appeals to me. We have the most talented work force anywhere. Anything to get them working and stamp " Made in America" on products will make me feel closer to the country we used to know.

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    Editor Carlos Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    Here's a Ron Paul supporter at the protest saying we should End the Fed.

    Doug likes this.

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    Editor Carlos Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    Here's an article from Forbes about how it is not just a protest but community that has evolved on Wall Street that is planning further actions and discussing ideas.

    It's like a mix of a cyber community and a real community.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...ust-a-protest/

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    Senior Member GandJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Meltzer View Post
    Have we not learned that giving corporations (some of them, not all) money doesn't necessarily equate to them creating jobs? You can't just cut taxes for them, it has to come with a condition.
    A true free market would tax them the same no matter what and let them make their own decisions. And I'm not against that either. But insisting that cutting corporate taxes will automatically creat jobs is naive.

    I agree that cutting corporate taxes won't _automatically_ create jobs, but it certainly has a better chance of creating jobs than having higher taxes. The USA already has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world (Blackford says it's the highest here, but either way, it's very high and within a fraction of a percent of being the highest). Nothing is guaranteed in either direction, but higher taxes will increase the chances of pushing a company away, and lower taxes will increases chances of keeping them home.

    The protesters are in the wrong location.
    There needs to be an "Occupy Washington, DC" protest. It would be great to see the country go back to being for the people instead of for the government. An average person works until April 12 just to pay government taxes. When state taxes and fees are figured in, some states push the date into May. Add in sales taxes, the costs of beaurocratic regulations, etc., and people end up working even longer just to satisfy the government....many into August. ... For 2011, an average person in CT has to work 250 days just to satisfy the government, ... both taxes, and increased costs because of goovernment regulations and fees. That's absurd.

    As for corporations, we have the freedom to buy their stuff or not buy their stuff. We are not forced to shop at Wal-Mart or use ABC Bank or buy X brand of car. We can choose not to do that. However, we are forced, by threat of fines and / or imprisonment, to satisfy the extremely high costs of a wasterful government. If corporations were run like the Federal government, its company's officers would be in prison.
    Yes, an occupy Washington, DC protest is needed, but it likely won't happen. The ones who would protest are probably too busy trying to satisfy all the governent taxes and regulations that require them to work up to 250 days in some states, just to satisfy the Fed and State government. The working people are being screwed.


    Someone's going to mention that we all paid for corporate bailouts that some banks, some car companies, etc. got. I agree that those bailouts need to stop. Of course, the other side of that coin is the question of....How much did government cost these companies in the first place, leading to that bad financial position of the company?

    It's not an easy answer.


    Glenn








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    Member Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occupy Miami takes shape at Bayfront Park

    A lot of these people are angry at Wall Street and this highly fluctuating stock market, in which tons of IRA's, pensions, savings, etc seem to be "gambled". Bankers are the ones most responsible for the economic collapses in 1929, 1987 and 2008.

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