How prevalent is Cuban/anglo interracial dating?
Hello all! Newbie here with a question:
Is interracial Cuban/white dating common in Miami/Southern Florida as say, Mexican-American/white dating in the Southwest and California?
I am a sociologist and wanted to know.
I never really thought of Cubans as being in a separate race from whites, really. Most of them are from the same European stock as many "white" people. Spain is next to France, after all, and Italy is just as Latin. My closest Cuban friend in Miami is of Spanish heritage and is whiter than I am, and I'm Scots-Irish! I know many consider those of hispanic origin to be of a separate race, but I don't really get it.
I'm a Colombian-American born and raised in Miami. All my life I assumed I was White and I was Hispanic.
I knew some kids in school who were black and Hispanic.
And I knew some kids who where white and non-Hispanic as well as many non-Hispanic blacks.
When I moved to Arizona after returning from a two-year stay in Europe, I was immediately informed that I was no longer white because I was Hispanic.
I was told they could make an exception for me because my dad was a white American, but I would have to disown my Colombian heritage in order to get my white card.
So I said fuck that and signed up with the Hispanics. Literally, as they make you choose when you fill out certain forms.
Before I knew it, I was a card-carrying Raza member.
Down here, fortunately, it's not so black and white. It is understood that race and ethnicity are two separate items.
What many would refer to as "whites", we would refer to as "Anglos".
That is not an accurate term either because this includes all white people who don't speak Spanish, regardless if they are descendants from England, as the name Anglo suggests.
It is actually pretty insulting to call an Irish-American an Anglo considering all the bad blood that has been spilled between England and Ireland in the past 800 years.
To answer your question, I don't see any stigma with Cubans dating Anglos, but I don't know if it is very prevalent.
I think this idea of Hispanics being a separate race stems from the mestizo Mexicans who cross the border and settle in the Southwest.
They tend to have darker skin because they are mostly descendant from the Aztecs and Mayans who bred with the Spaniards.
However, if you go to Mexico City, you will find some very light-skinned Mexicans, who are mostly descendant from a purer line of Spaniards. It would be inaccurate to call them mestizos.
Considering these Mexicans tend to be in the higher economic class, you don't find many of them sneaking across the border begging for work as a dishwasher.
Latin America is very multiracial. You have whites, blacks, Indians. They are all Hispanic but they are not a single race. They are not a single color.
The U.S. Census never seemed to understand this.
In my Colombian family, I have cousins who are just as dark as the Mexicans crossing the border and I have cousins who have fairer skin, lighter eyes and lighter hair than I do - and I'm half-gringo.
Much as this is one of my very favorite Miami debates, and I would love nothing more than to chime in (bootom line, anywhere outside of SOuth Florida and MAybe NEw york if you come from a Spanish-speaking country you are considered Mexican, regardless of skin color. Not saying its good or bad but how we see things in america) I belieive the question was about DATING.
Yes, it is pretty common. Actually, VERY common. The only guys I knew who stayed here after undergrad who were not goign to grad school had Latin girlfriends they were hanging around for. Some American guys love dating Latin women, I don't see it so much the other way around (Latin guys with white girls, although that happens too). But, yeah, you see a lot of interracial couples down here. Since Hispanics are the majority, it only reasons, right? You don't see to many black and white couples, though.
I could expound on my various theories as to why a lot of white guys like Latin girls, but not so much the other way around, but I tihnk that's like a sociology master's thesis tht is way too long for a forum post.
To answer your question. Yes, it is common to see non-Hispanics dating Hispanics, irrespective of skin color. I've heard it said among Cubans that relationships between Cuban women/American men are more successful than Cuban men/American women. In my experience, this is generally true. But no matter the gender combination, a Cuban person would never consider the fact of dating an American as an interracial relationship, unless the two people were obviously racially different.
As Carlos has pointed out, Latin America is indeed very multi-racial. I'll add the Caribbean to that mix too. Hispanics share a language and a history, but we are extremely diverse in the way we look.
I am American of Cuban parents and Spanish grandparents. I'm a pale shade of white with blue eyes. I'm often mistaken for a gringa. When I tell people I'm Cuban-American they often say "but you're so ..." This only tells me that they are unfamiliar with Cuban history.
When I fill out a form, I always put "other" and never check white or Hispanic because the truth is that I'm both and it seems ridiculous to me that I should have to label myself as one and not the other.
All this being said, Cubans are VERY sensitive to subtle racial differences among themselves, especially in the older generation. It's the old colonial mindset of slavery culture still lingering.
Hi trewsx7 and welcome to the site.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's common or prevalent just because of demographics. The area is primarily Hispanics, hence less anglos. That said, students and transplants tend to hook-up with Hispanic gals 'cuz they're are what/who is readily available.
I think the days of 'gringos' are long gone. Most 'Cubans' have been in the US for over half of their lives and don't feel threatened anymore by the cultural differences. Are we told to not date anglos, not in my house. Were they welcomed by my grandmothers at family gatherings- always. For the Mexicans, who may see Americans as evil because of the continued daily conflicts, it may be a different case. I will tell you that the Cubans still stuck in Cuba, literally DIEING to come to the US, dream of meeting an 'Anglo' and living the American dream...
Maria made a comment about relationships between Cuban women and Anglo men having a higher success than that of Cuban men and Anglo women. It's an interesting point to make considering culture.
In Cuban culture (My grandmother still practices this today which irks me to HIGH HELL. CaptOtter doesn't have to do dishes there because he is a man- EVER...and our grandmother is teaching this to my son...GRR), the man is the bread winner and the woman stays at home, cooking and cleaning. The woman will do this even for her GROWN ASS, MIDDLE-AGED children. The men are taught to look for good women who can do these same things for them. Women are just taught how to cook, clean and fold clothing. Secretly, their mothers tell them to study in school so they don't need a man to provide for them. What happens? The guys grow up looking for someone to take care of them and the women grow up looking for a way out.
Along comes John Smith. John Smith takes care of himself. You don't have to cook or clean for him. What's more- John Smith is not threatened by the fact that you have a degree and a good paying, quite possibly highEr paying, job. John Smith is also less chauvinistic and jealous than his hot-blooded, Cuban counterpart is. John Smith gives you that freedom you've been looking for and doesn't treat you like he owns you- at least not the John Smiths I've dated.
Note: I'm <strike>training</strike> raising Nick to be a John Smith.
Make sure to let us know what trends or patterns your survey reveals.
Suzy ... excellent points, amiga! As well, let's note how this behavior is supported in popular culture by the ubiquitous telenovela.
This has also always irked me to high hell! The women-folk, who also work full-time, hanging out in the kitchen cleaning while the men-folk sit on their asses talking sh*t (you know, hablando m ...)
When I was a kid, this used to happen all the time at gatherings. But in recent years the sharing of chores in my family has become very equitable. For example, my bro-in-law does a lot of cooking and my father always does the dishes at night.
My first boyfriend was a German/American, my second a gringo from NY of Irish/Polish descent. My third was a Chileno who moved here about 25 years ago and he possessed the worst traits of machismo.
But it's not that I would never get involved with a Hispanic male. I haven't avoided them ... it just has happened to work out that way.
Kudos on raising your John Smith. The other positive about that type of man: LESS DRAMA!
It is true that men in Latin cultures tend to get raised chauvinistically.
When I was living in Colombia as a teen, my grandfather ordered me to stay out of the kitchen because it was only for women.
As it turns out, I am an avid cook and can't avoid the kitchen. And in all my past relationships, I've always been the one who does the most cooking. Washing dishes, however, it another thing altogether.
Maybe my grandfather was just trying to keep me from hitting on the live-in maid(that a topic that deserves its own thread).
So I've even noticed the traditional gender roles thing to be true among my hipsniac friends my age who were born and raised here. For instance I had 2 friends who both had their first children within a month of each other. One was Dominacan, the other from Buffalo (aka REALLY white).
I go over to my Domincan friend's house and his finacee, who used to ahng out with us, is with the child the whole time. We'll take a break from drinking scotch and smoking cigars to see what she has made us for dinner. When we discover she hasn't had time to go to the stroe becasue she was busy with the child, instead of goign to the store we just go out to a restaurant and habla some more mie**a. We don't buy anytihng for the fiancee or child.
The guy from Buffalo? I can't tell you how many times he's called me and said "Yeah, my wife's goign out tonight so I gotta watch the kid." Or been out at Happy hour and she's called and he says "Yeah, we gotta put the kid to bed."
So, as a non-Latin here, how does it happen that those roles become perpetuated even among Hipsanics born and raised in the US?
I am a gringo from Ohio. I teach both my son and daughter to make sure to first set their lives up so that they never have to depend on anyone but themselves. Yes, find someone that enhances their life, while at the same time allowing them to be themselves. A marriage should bring out the best in both a husband and a wife. Subserviance should be a dead practice. It is demoralizing and humiliating.
I want my kids to go to college, discover their talents and use them to support themselves first then hopefully they will be ready for a healthy long lasting love.
Self reliance and self esteem should come from within, not from some sort of relationship co-dependancy. I suppose I lean more toward Suzy's "John Smith" description.
"I won't get married again though. I'll just find a woman I hate and buy her a house".
HAHAHAHAHA- at least that won't ruin your credit but take note Scott, in Florida, if you live with someone for 10 years, they are your common-law spouse; no ceremony, ring or signature needed.
“I won't get married again though. I'll just find a woman I hate and buy her a house”.
Matt, I think that some women who were raised here still have issues with co-dependency and this unfortunately affects a cross-section of society at large; it's not just among Hispanics. All of us adopt the relationship patterns we learned as children and it's up to us to break the negative patterns as adults and keep the good ones. It's fear and low self-esteem that keeps many women bound to men who don't give them the respect and courtesy they deserve. But relationships are all about learning more about yourself and evolving on a spiritual level. Again, this is universal.
I think what happens with Hispanics is true of everyone -- even if we're women raised to be independent and career-minded, we're not taught great skill sets when it comes to relationships. Parents do the best they can based on what they know but for the children of immigrants this is further complicated by the fact that you're being raised in two different worlds. At least this is true for me -- there was always a rift between the Cuban mind-set I was taught and the American world I was growing up in. Talk about mixed messages. So it was my lot in life and my challenge to figure it out and make the best of it. I love the fact that I have skirted two cultures all my life because it has made me who I am today.
There are lots of Cuban-American's here just like in Cali there are lots of Mexican-American's. That's what causes the interracial dating. That's why we're so diverse here and so is Cali :) gotta love it. I have a couple of American co-workers that are married to Cuban-American's. After being here from Cuba more than half your life...you adapt and so do the Americans.
BTW: I hate the whole black, white, Hispanics etc classifications. We're past that, we need to get updated! We do have an African-American/Muslim/Caucasian/who-knows-what and a white/ex-first-lady/cheated-on-publicly/woman running for presidents...
Thanks, Maria. So I guess it just depends how far you can rmeove yourself from what you learned from your parents. Interesting. Having never even been close to married, its a dynamic I really know nothgin about. I was raised by a single mother, so I really have no idea one way or the other.
It's funny, because my male CA friends THINK they are progressive and "American" and modern and all that, yet they unconsciously repeat the behaviors they saw in their homes. All of my male friends with Cuban or Hispanic parents had a mom who did their laundry and cooked their food until the day they got married (and those still single, whether living at home or not, get their food cooked and laundry done!). So it's almost like they can't help having these expectations of the women they date, even if they also admire their independence and like they are educated and have jobs. The expectation is that they are still the primary homemakers and take care of the kids.
And while there are exceptions to this rule, this is why I don't ever see myself in a serious relationship with a Hispanic guy - I hate doing housework and won't ever do it all myself. I also believe in fully sharing the responsibilities of home and child-raising, especially when both people work outside the home.
I think there's hope, that any couple can work this stuff out, but the women have to be nags about it, and honestly, I'm interested in having a mature relationship, not mothering someone.
I can't resist tossing in my dos centavos.
I agree that you see more of the Anglo male / Latin female combo than the opposite. I'm also a gringo from Ohio, and I would not even think about pulling the crap with women that I see my otherwise progressive, US-born and -raised male friends of Cuban heritage pull with their wives. It's mindboggling. Matt's dead right; I've had similar experiences.
I suspect that a gringa from up north would not put up with the crap that Latin males dish out without even thinking about it. I also have female friends of Cuban heritage that enable the loutish behavior of their husbands. They complain to my wife, I get a nice compliment since I don't pull whatever led to the complaint, and then they head home and go back to "Lout Enabling 101." Nothing changes, and I can see the next generation of men behaving boorishly being raised before my very eyes.
Flipping it around, when a Latina here comes across a guy who can do his own laundry, who did not live with mommy and daddy until he was 30, who can cook, and who may even on occasion do dishes without first being threatened with capital punishment - I suppose that beats the alternative ... That may explain why one is more likely to see Anglo males with Latin women than vice versa.
Yup, you pretty much hit the nail on the head, Warmonger.
This is the first time I've ever heard of Cuban/American relationships being referred to as "interracial."
But anyway, have you never watched "I Love Lucy?" It's exactly like that. Really.
P.S. You are not a sociologist.
Tere seriously? What the hell do these Hispanic guy friends of yours do when they get divorced with kids?
Originally Posted by Tere
I am a single dad and have had my my kids two overnights a week and every other weekend for 5 years. I do all the laundry, dusting, vaccum, mow lawn, clean bathrooms, scrub floors and toilets, make dinner and breakfast, drive them to school, soccer practice and games, do the grocery shopping.
We do a lot together and with all of our friends etc. This plus my full time engineering job and I still trained for triathlon's and marathons.
Perhaps this is why I am considering taking a new job and moving to Miami and becoming a "summers only" dad. To get a break!