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  1. #41
    rk
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    Default Re: My landlord went into foreclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by sungal View Post
    .....is this language in your lease? And the board has already approved you. I'd ask to see a copy of the condo bylaws. Where exactly does it say that if a landlord is in forclosure/not paying dues your lease is invalid? So the board has the power to reverse the Obama law? ....
    No, we are assuming (and the board is telling Jess) that the board never approved the new lease. This seems like a reasonable assumption, since the landlady hasn't paid the hoa fees in months, so no sensible board is going approve rentals on that unit.

    Lease renewals must be approved by the board in most cases. Just signing or renewing a lease means little without that approval.

    (that clause I quoted is from a standard Florida lease, and should be in every rental agreement).

  2. #42
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    In fact my landlady actually said, consider the lease void, she won't take any more rent from me, and if I want to stay longer she said pay the Board rent as that way, they'll not evict me and leave me alone. In her eyes, I am finished paying her. She is basically past caring and waiting for the bank to take it. It clearly has been going on some time.
    If the Board had said nothing she'd have continued taking my rent till it went under. As they forced her hand she has admitted she is losing the apt and I will have to move. I do have a signed lease from her but I guess it means nothing. My friend said stay until someone evicts you and don't pay anything more, but I don't want to do that...

  3. #43
    rk
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    Default Re: My landlord went into foreclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by Jess View Post
    How safe would it be to pay rent to the Board? I mean eventually I'll be kicked out by the bank. But I'm kind of not happy with the thought of paying 'rent' to the board when it isn't really rent. Then again, I'vepaid my landlady for a yr and she wasn't paying her mortgage so who cares right??
    I would not pay rent to the board, and I am sure if they are a legit board they would know they are not authorized to collect rent. Legally you owe rent to the landlady, but since the lease may be invalid this is a gray area. The board is only interested in the hoa dues, and possibly the dues for the last few months.

    My suggestion is - keep looking for a new/better place, but do not rush or panic. The board will send you a couple of letters, then they may get an attorney involved, at which point you can negotiate some terms with the attorney. But do not pay them anything beyond the hoa dues, and even then get an attorney yourself before doing that.

    If the landlady is not collecting rent and resigned to foreclosure then you would technically be dealing with the new owners in a few months. Since you presumably don't have a valid lease the new owner could ask you to leave immediately (Obama notwithstanding), but you're still looking a few months down the road, so hopefully you found something better by then.

  4. #44
    rk
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    Default Re: My landlord went into foreclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by Jess View Post
    ...I do have a signed lease from her but I guess it means nothing. My friend said stay until someone evicts you and don't pay anything more, but I don't want to do that...
    Yes, the lease without board approval is probably invalid (without having seen the lease or the condo rules, but in most cases).

    Your friend is correct, but the board could move to evict you earlier than the foreclosure, thus you can gain some time by negotiating something with them, but don't pay them anything more than the hoa dues, and even then I suggest hiring an attorney at that point.

    It will take the board a while to get to that point (of hiring an attorney etc) so you can use that to look around for a better place. You have anywhere from 30 days to 1 year before you will be forced to move.

  5. #45
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    Actually they already have an attorney, they were going today until I spoke to them to say I was doing a deal with my landlady. She owes them over $7000 so her view was, if you pay the monthly rent directly to them, it takes down her debt, and they won't evict me. So you're saying I could just pay the monthly Board fees whcih are $400, not my normal amount of rent? Landlady won't care I am sure as she is not keeping the place.

    It is very confusing. Ideally, the longer I can stay the better. And apparently they can get a 30 day eviction notice pretty sharp. Would that go against me in any way?

  6. #46
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    1.First of all "the Board" told Jess nothing. It's a small building and a nice couple that's her neighbor filled her in on what the board was planning. No call from the condo board president, no letter..

    2. I don't understand the whole "lease is invalid because it was never approved by the board". There's no signature for the board to sign. Jess initially had to be approved by the board, and she was.
    Let's say a landlord and tenant sign a lease..what criteria does the board use to approve or deny a lease?

    3. I don't understand paying rent/dues to a condo board. Once she's in foreclosure isn't the bank the property owner?
    I wonder if Jess could pay her rent to the bank, but I guess all the bank wants to do is sell it.

  7. #47
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    Well, the neighbor is on The Board so he does know...

    It's just a case of who's going to kick me out first!

  8. #48
    rk
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    Default Re: My landlord went into foreclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by sungal View Post
    1.First of all "the Board" told Jess nothing. It's a small building and a nice couple that's her neighbor filled her in on what the board was planning. No call from the condo board president, no letter..
    Hmm... glad you clarified that. I assumed Jess has been contacted by the board, based on this earlier post:

    The Board has just told me that during the last year she has not paid any maintenance fees, and they have tried to reason and negotiate yet she does not pay, even though she is collecting my rent. They have now advised me they are hiring an attorney to evict the tenant -ME -...
    I assumed this was via a letter of some sort. If there is no written communication from the board then Jess should just wait until that happens. Still best to start looking for alternate places, but it seems like she may have a fair amount of time then.

    2. I don't understand the whole "lease is invalid because it was never approved by the board". There's no signature for the board to sign. Jess initially had to be approved by the board, and she was.
    Let's say a landlord and tenant sign a lease..what criteria does the board use to approve or deny a lease?
    The lease is subject to condo rules. For example, if the condo rules say "no dogs" and the owner rents to someone with dogs, then it doesn't matter who does or doesn't sign the lease, it is automatically invalid. Similarly, the condo rules usually say "the lease must be approved by the condo board" (or something like that). One of the criteria they can use to deny approval is if the owner is not paying hoa fees. This is our working assumption in this case. If this is not the case (i.e. the new lease has been approved) then we should find out on what grounds they are trying to evict Jess. The landlady should have a written and signed approval from the condo board if such approval was given (for the new lease, not last year - each lease must be approved separately normally).

    3. I don't understand paying rent/dues to a condo board. Once she's in foreclosure isn't the bank the property owner?
    I wonder if Jess could pay her rent to the bank, but I guess all the bank wants to do is sell it.
    I am assuming the unit is in the process of foreclosure, and has not yet been foreclosed upon. Without knowing any facts about the case or unit it is hard to make firm predictions. It can take anywhere from 3 to 36 months to foreclose on a property after proceedings start. The bank owns nothing until then. Technically the landlady does, but without a valid lease Jess may be within her rights to withold rent, at least until the deposit and advance paymets are recovered.

    I strongly recommend that Jess should do some digging into the status of the foreclosure. You can find a lot from the county clerk's website which I linked above, and also the property assesor's and court records sites. If you need links or advice let me know.

    Do not pay rent to the board. They cannot legally collect it. I was only mentioning negotiating for the hoa dues as a possible way of forestalling eviction proceedings, though it seems like we're not very close to that yet.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: My landlord went into foreclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by rk View Post

    I strongly recommend that Jess should do some digging into the status of the foreclosure. You can find a lot from the county clerk's website which I linked above, and also the property assesor's and court records sites. If you need links or advice let me know.

    Do not pay rent to the board. They cannot legally collect it. I was only mentioning negotiating for the hoa dues as a possible way of forestalling eviction proceedings, though it seems like we're not very close to that yet.
    I checked the link but nothing came up on the property.

    Paying rent to the Board was to stop them doing a 30 day eviction. It would go towards paying off my landladys debt. She is past caring I think if I stay or go. But the board can get a 30 day eviction on me as I am in the apartment without approval (the new lease was not approved).

  10. #50
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    Oh and the 30 day eviction is for real, I checked with my friend who is a lawyer and they can do it. Also, my other 2 friends had this happen to them last month, they came back to the notice on the front door, so it will happen... I guess i could stay till end Oct as I've paid that, and then try and eek out November while I find a new place...

    Anyone have a beautiful 1 BR, on the beach with ocean view in SoFi for me...? LOL

  11. #51
    rk
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    Default Re: My landlord went into foreclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by Jess View Post
    I checked the link but nothing came up on the property.
    You need to check very carefully, and often in multiple ways. If the landlady's name is Jane Doe e.g. enter it as Doe, Jane in the search field (after first clicking on "Standard Search" on the link I posted). That site is finicky, names much be spelled exactly, and sometimes there are typos so you have to try variations. Try just the last name if there is no match for the last/first name combo.

    Try searching by the condo assoc name as well, e.g. Continuum. If any foreclosure proceeding has been started it simply must appear on that site.

    Also search the following sites:
    http://www2.miami-dadeclerk.com/Civil/
    http://gisims2.miamidade.gov/myhome/propmap.asp


    Paying rent to the Board was to stop them doing a 30 day eviction. It would go towards paying off my landladys debt. She is past caring I think if I stay or go. But the board can get a 30 day eviction on me as I am in the apartment without approval (the new lease was not approved).
    You can't really call it rent since they have no right to lease someone else's (the landlady's) property, and I would not pay them anything without getting an attorney to help you negotiate this. You don't legally owe them past due hoa fees (the landlady does). I would only consider this as a stop-gap measure to buy time. A valid lease gives you certain rights as tenant, and if you start paying any money to the board you may be without those rights.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Doug's Avatar
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    So did the landlord not inform the board that she wanted to renew your lease? And is the passage RK refers to in your lease? In other words, can you invoke the new Obama foreclosure law at all?

  13. #53
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    Default Re: My landlord went into foreclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by Jess View Post
    Oh and the 30 day eviction is for real, I checked with my friend who is a lawyer and they can do it. Also, my other 2 friends had this happen to them last month, they came back to the notice on the front door, so it will happen... I guess i could stay till end Oct as I've paid that, and then try and eek out November while I find a new place...

    Anyone have a beautiful 1 BR, on the beach with ocean view in SoFi for me...? LOL
    Another option is what nefrocatracho mentioned earlier (see #29 post above). There is a new law as of June 1 2010 in Florida that allows a condo association to collect rents on behalf of delinquent owners. It is called the "Distressed Condominium Relief Act". Presumably they could only do this until the unit is foreclosed upon and there is a new owner, but it may work in this case as the landlady doesn't seem to care, and the condo board does. You may want to ask them about it. Some more information here:

    http://tenantstogether.org/article.php?id=1495

  14. #54
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    Aaaaaaaaaaaabsolutely do NOT pay the Board anything!!! I cannot stress that enough. They have NO right to your money, period.

    If the condo goes into foreclosure, that means your landlady owes the BANK. Not the board. If the BANK takes it over, you might negotiate a lease with them. But NOT the board!

    And, I am nearly sure the Board cannot evict you for her non-payment of dues. That is an issue between the homeowner and the board. If the board was to evict someone, it would have to be HER, which would then invalidate your lease, and you would need to move.

    However, as RK says, do not do *anything* until the Board notifies you IN WRITING that you have to leave.

    Now, if you do receive a letter based on the new law mentioned by RK above, then perhaps you can pay them directly, but remember that the BANK is going to take the condo from the owner, which means that the bank will be your new landlord, not the board.

    Here is the main thing, do not panic and do not let the board intimidate you. I kid you not, they will lie to you, and they will bully you, and they will harass you, but you need to know your rights, first. Make them produce written proof of all their claims. And, even if it is in their bylaws, it may not be legal, so be sure to check that.

    Really, I think your best bet is to find a new place to live. But, meantime, do NOT pay the board any money.
    (Did I reiterate that enough?)

    Also, I think their claims that the lease is invalid are complete bullshit. They are just saying that to scare you.
    Last edited by coach; 09-08-2010 at 12:43 AM.

  15. #55
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    Unhappy I am NOT a lawyer......

    Jess,

    I am so sorry you have had to deal with such BS! You are an innocent victim who did everything she was required and operated in good faith.

    I am not a lawyer, but I would think you have some rights or recourse. One would think against your landlady.

    That former mayor who eventually went to jail wrote a book. He did some fine, honest early work as a city attorney for miami beach, (they had an office at city hall just for this stuff) helping protect tenants. Please check that out or some legal aid program as sometimes you NEED to have a lawyer to protect your rights.

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    Default Re: My landlord went into foreclosure

    Wow no wonder this country is gonna end up like the Roman empire. With so many people gaming the system like that lady who in my opinion is committing fraud and theft by taking out a bank loan on a property and then charging tenants and pocketing the money.

  17. #57
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    Hi everyone, I just wanted to follow up with this great report I found on Help Me Howard on a similar issue as Jess' -- Help Me Howard - Landlord vs Tenant vs Association

    It's about condo association vs tenant.

  18. #58
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    Maria, thanks for the link. Jess, how did things turn out? Did you end up moving, or have things been resolved between the landlord and the HOA?

  19. #59
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    I moved. Let's hope 3rd time lucky.

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    My apartment is in foreclosure too. I still pay (a way-reduced) rent, because I'm friends with the guy I was renting it from. I understood his reasons for letting it go...

    anyway, the process has been going on for over a year. I also like where I live, so I'm gonna stick it out until the last minute. And to agree with one of the posts above, I believe there is a 90-day period from the time the foreclosure is done until you have to vacate.

    This happened to me one other time, but in another state: A representative from the bank that foreclosed on the apartment simply showed up and told me they were my new landlords and I should pay rent to them.

    best of luck, Jess.

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