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Thread: Miami nightlife on a budget

  1. #41
    Member sungal's Avatar
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    Matt do you have anymore recipies for flasking it?

  2. #42
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    Holy shit, a couple days ago, I was going to write a snarky post directed at Matt pointing out that since he was an employee, his comments encouraging people to commit illegal acts could be interpreted by an annoyed club-owner as being an official stance of MiamiBeach411 and chastise him for doing so in the forums. But, I thought better of it, I pick on the poor guy enough. Lo and behold, today I come to the site and there is an *actual* official article on the front page encouraging what is pretty serious criminal activity.

    I have to give it to you, Gus and Michelle, that takes some balls, considering the kind of trouble you could be opening yourself up for. I also think it is strangely ironic, since your business relies on the tourist industry, and the tourist industry relies, at least partly, on the nightlife business, and the nightlife business relies, at least partly, on charging high prices to tourists for drinks. It seems to me to be a case of shooting yourself in the foot, but possibly I am missing something.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I am no little follow-the-rules kind of guy, but even I am very careful about promoting criminality in such a public arena. Especially one with the history of the internet. I mean, if you were to just tell someone verbally to commit a criminal act, well, then it is your word against theirs. But, here, there is written, if pixelated, proof. Wow.

    And, yeah, despite what you think, refusing to pay high drink prices is not putting it to the man in any way. Nearly all these club owners are just entrepreneurs, just like Gus and Michelle. They might do well, but they are by no means Trump rich. Their business is tenuous, at best, and can be killed by very little. You are really not standing up for anything by not paying for your drinks, you are just being cheap and rude. If you want to make a difference that you can feel morally superior about, quit driving your car or shopping at Wal-Mart. But scewing over a small businessperson? That's just sad.

    If I cannot afford the drink prices somewhere, I either curb my drinking there, or go somewhere else. And that's all I have to say about it. Being an entrepreneur, I am pretty defensive about screwing over other entrepreneurs, even if they are making a decent living. It's not okay, no matter what sort of rationalization you try to pull.
    Last edited by Michelle; 07-26-2010 at 12:50 PM.

  3. #43
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    coach, is it really "criminal activity" or just club rules that prohibit carry-ins?
    For example, if I opened a new club, could I allow carry-ins?
    Just wondering.

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    Matt- I second the CL+rum, especially for being cheap and convenient, though the pink lemonade mix is sweeter so it goes well with vodka.

    Also, hello to Scot & sophgrl10 from another South Carolinian (except I'm moving to Miami next week)! And I know this is forum for Miami Beach, but have either of you tried Cubanita Cafe in Greenville near Falls Park? Went there maybe a year ago & it was pretty good (and much closer than Miami when you want a Cuban fix!).

  5. #45
    Member Fabian G.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Miami nightlife on a budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Maria de los Angeles View Post
    Fabian: why would anyone offer their flask to a stranger?

    I think people would be less inclined to sneak in their own booze if a plain, well vodka martini didn't cost $17. That's what I paid at the Florida Room the other night. Ugh. Total wallet-rape.

    I do agree one should tip bartenders well, no matter where you go. I think in some places they make a percentage of their sales, but the bottom line is that that drink does not need to cost $17. You're not paying for the drink, but the privilege of drinking it at a swankier location.
    Hi Maria, because I have seen being done right in front of my eyes. Strangers offering to pour a drink to a girl from their flask. The girl was stupid to have accepted it. I also think what Carlos meant is that by sneaking in a flask it takes away from people buying drinks therefore the bartenders don't make their money on the tips. And he is correct, the club can be shut down under extreme measures. Its not the right thing to do, predrink outside the club if you have to, but not get predrunk. If you can't speak clearly, stand up straight,etc.: the bouncer, the doorman or the person checking ID's, and to include me; won't let you in. Its an insurance risk and who would want to be around a person like that, they get really annoying, get sick (throw up), and they often look for fights because they can't analyze their own thoughts. Anyway, enough said.

  6. #46
    Member Fabian G.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Miami nightlife on a budget

    Quote Originally Posted by rk View Post
    coach, is it really "criminal activity" or just club rules that prohibit carry-ins?
    For example, if I opened a new club, could I allow carry-ins?
    Just wondering.
    RK - its agains the law for anyone to carry in liquor into an establishment without the expressed permission of the club. Two major reasons, one the club does not know what you have inside the bottle (whether its real liquor, spiked etc), and second the club could lose their license because the bar code on the bottle is different from that of the bottle that is sold in the club. Yes the bar codes are different even if the bottles look the same and are the same brand. Bottles for bar and clubs by law have to be purchased from designated wholesalers. There are tax reasons involved as well. These are two reason, there are more. And btw, you will never get the expressed written permission from the owner of the club to do so...

  7. #47
    Member Fabian G.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Miami nightlife on a budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Meltzer View Post
    That's cute, Fabian. Trying to get your employers' money. But, while illegal, flaksing is the ONLY option for people who want to go out regularly to nice places who aren't rich. I do it EVERY time I go to a club. And, as a bartender, I do it while still supporting by service-industry brethren by tipping $2 on every soda I purchase. As a bartender, anyone who tips m3 2 bucks for pouring a soda out of a gun is fine by me. I could give 2 shits what they do with it.

    I've actually started taking it one step further by sneaking in packets of Crystal Light and mixing them with tap water I get FREE from the bar. Again, I give the bartender $2. And, again, any time I pour somebody a water and they give me $2, I think that person is pretty cool. So the only losers here.....ready......the club owners who take themselves so seriously and think they're so cool they can charge me the price of an entire bottle of vodka for one drink.

    I've been flasking it on the Beach for roughly 8 years. Never been thrown out once. As someone said, that's what they get for pricing people out. I would spend $50-60 in the club if drinks were a normal price. But since you wanna charge me like I'm some dumb tourist or some Persian douchebag trying to impress people? You get NOTHING! Good DAY sir.
    Matt what you are doing is poaching from the club in simple terms. Keep this in mind, the numbers are against you. In due time you will get caught, everyone does sooner or later. More and more, club owners are installing high definition cameras, for these and other reasons. If you value your job in these tough times, I suggest you seriously take a hard look at what you are doing. You are in a sense ripping off the employer you work for. Need a raise one of these days or a loan from the employer? when he tells you I can't because I am losing money, your conscience will get to you. Its very unethical what you are doing and preaching it to the World on the Internet is not helping your cause or making you look like a hot shot (FYI club and bar owners know about this site). Putting down any race or culture is uncool. I wonder if you write these things when you have been drinking. Also do you understand the reasoning why it costs $14-$17 for a drink? (rent, dj, license to operate, alcohol license (runs nearly in the million for a club); dancers, bartenders, waitress, hosts, security, operating supplies, furniture, projectors, liquor, runners, advertising, clean up crew, set up crew, light production, sound system producer, speakers, dj equipment, decorations, etc). I can go on, hopefully you get my drift and stop believing that the owner of an establishment thinks he is really cool for charging what s/he does.

    I am not Saint, but I am not Stupid to announce these things on here.

  8. #48
    Member sungal's Avatar
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    Coach, I don't think Matt is a criminal...and I don't think the Opium Group counts as "entrepreneurs". However, if there is a lovely decor, a great crowd, and good music at a club all of these things are club expenses. They obviously have the right to charge more for alcohol than Walgreen's or Ted's. Have you ever heard the expression "you're paying for the atmosphere"?

    Let's say someone can afford to go to a club once every two weeks..if they flask it, they can go three times a week. Isn't that better for the club to have an extra body those two additional nights? Especially during the summer...

    Clubs are concerned with getting sued, drugs, sometimes shootings, bad press, but not necessarily searching for the one or two people "flasking it."

  9. #49
    Travel Advisor fredgarvin's Avatar
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    Exclamation Fabian, not cool!

    Fabin, you are entitled your opinion and, I appreciate it. Matt, is also entitled to his, serious or sarcastic, with humor caught by some, missed by others.

    To say "I wonder if you write these things when you have been drinking," even in jest, is just uncool and beneath the professionalism you demonstrate in your behavior and espouse in your posts.

    Matt is a professional writer and does NOT need me to defend him. so I will not, but I feel strongly you owe him an apology!

    One thing I love about this forum Gus has created is that, for the most part, people are respectful of each other, tolerant of differing opinions, and generous with their help.

    I urge you to correct your obvious accidental miss-step!

  10. #50
    Member Fabian G.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Fabian, not cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgarvin View Post
    Fabin, you are entitled your opinion and, I appreciate it. Matt, is also entitled to his, serious or sarcastic, with humor caught by some, missed by others.

    To say "I wonder if you write these things when you have been drinking," even in jest, is just uncool and beneath the professionalism you demonstrate in your behavior and espouse in your posts.

    Matt is a professional writer and does NOT need me to defend him. so I will not, but I feel strongly you owe him an apology!

    One thing I love about this forum Gus has created is that, for the most part, people are respectful of each other, tolerant of differing opinions, and generous with their help.

    I urge you to correct your obvious accidental miss-step!
    Fred, thank you for your opinion and observation. Yet I do not feel I owe him an apology. As you said the jest of the humor was not understood. But moreso, if you think that was uncool, what was seriously uncool was his cultural remark that I think he needs to apologize for. Many of our readers are from different cultures and ethnic backgrounds, and that was truly unappreciated or uncalled for. I am hispanic, with Italian and Spanish descent, and I take serious offense to when someone is taking crap or putting down latins for whatever reason. I can only imagine the same goes for other people with different backgrounds. And I want to say to all of our viewers that I appreciate your busines, the support you have provided on miamibeach411.com and for visiting our beautoful city.

    In regards to my opinion, its actual facts about why clubs charge what they do in case no one understood why. The rest okay, is my opinion I'll give you that.

    Enough said, peace everyone.

    Fabian

  11. #51
    Member Fabian G.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Miami nightlife on a budget

    Quote Originally Posted by sungal View Post
    Coach, I don't think Matt is a criminal...and I don't think the Opium Group counts as "entrepreneurs". However, if there is a lovely decor, a great crowd, and good music at a club all of these things are club expenses. They obviously have the right to charge more for alcohol than Walgreen's or Ted's. Have you ever heard the expression "you're paying for the atmosphere"?

    Let's say someone can afford to go to a club once every two weeks..if they flask it, they can go three times a week. Isn't that better for the club to have an extra body those two additional nights? Especially during the summer...

    Clubs are concerned with getting sued, drugs, sometimes shootings, bad press, but not necessarily searching for the one or two people "flasking it."
    Sungal not to defend OG, but you are mistaken. OG is composed of different entrepeneurs not just one, so whatever losses OG experiences, it affects every owner and as they s**t runs downhill. This goes for every club out there not just OG. I have worked for Karu, Voyage, the Guerras (Parkwest and Aerobar), Dream, Cielo, Dolce, Music Box, Nikki, Oxygen, Pawn Shop, Ecco, LIV, Shine, Dek 23, Skyline, Shoreclub, Setai Thursday Diners, Stereo, Centro, Bricks, Surfcomber Partys, Martini Bar.....the list continues; and its the same with every club.

    About the cost differene of alcohol to Walgreens and a club or bar, I explained it earlier.

    A club would like to have another body inside, as long as they are paying cover or buying drinks, not just coming in for free and drinking from their flask. I am not sure if you own a business, but would you want your guests using your services for free? Probably not, you would go out of business.

    If you want to drink for free in a club legally, gather a group of "just" good looking girls (8-10) and I will host them at my table. I do not invite dudes to the table, they can fend for themselves at the bar or get a table if they want to be inside the VIP with us.

    Regarding the searches, do you know that most of the clubs inland like Karu, Le Club, even some on the beach do pad searches, purse searches, and use metal wand detectors? Its not just for weapons, they are looking for drugs and alcohol bottles (the little ones or flasks).

    Anyway, when am I going to finally meet you?????

  12. #52
    Editor Carlos Miller's Avatar
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    Also do you understand the reasoning why it costs $14-$17 for a drink? (rent, dj, license to operate, alcohol license (runs nearly in the million for a club); dancers, bartenders, waitress, hosts, security, operating supplies, furniture, projectors, liquor, runners, advertising, clean up crew, set up crew, light production, sound system producer, speakers, dj equipment, decorations, etc).

    Fabian forgot to mention "promoters" in his list of people who need to get paid.

    When you opt to sneak in a flask into a club instead of shelling out $17 for a weak drink, you're not only siphoning money from the club owners, you're siphoning money from Fabian's pockets, who most likely gets a percentage of alcohol sales within the clubs he promotes.

    So it's understandable why he is so upset at Matt for implementing the idea of flasking it to potential club goers.

    But here at Miami Beach 411, we're not in the pockets of the club owners, so we really don't have to answer to them. We're here to provide a service to our readers (and more importantly, those that take the tours that for the most part, are not the club goers).

    And Coach, there is enough "serious illegal activity" going on in the clubs, much of it from the owners themselves, to use that phrase to describe sneaking a flask into a club.

    And I really doubt it could force the club to shut down.

    Let's get a grip here.

  13. #53
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    Fabian wrote: "About the cost differene of alcohol to Walgreens and a club or bar, I explained it earlier."


    "They obviously have the right to charge more for alcohol than Walgreen's or Ted's." That's what I wrote.. so I get it.

    Anyway going out tonight and I think I'm gonna flask it! Assuming I come up with a good recipe...

  14. #54
    Member Fabian G.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Miami nightlife on a budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Miller View Post
    Also do you understand the reasoning why it costs $14-$17 for a drink? (rent, dj, license to operate, alcohol license (runs nearly in the million for a club); dancers, bartenders, waitress, hosts, security, operating supplies, furniture, projectors, liquor, runners, advertising, clean up crew, set up crew, light production, sound system producer, speakers, dj equipment, decorations, etc).

    Fabian forgot to mention "promoters" in his list of people who need to get paid.

    When you opt to sneak in a flask into a club instead of shelling out $17 for a weak drink, you're not only siphoning money from the club owners, you're siphoning money from Fabian's pockets, who most likely gets a percentage of alcohol sales within the clubs he promotes.

    So it's understandable why he is so upset at Matt for implementing the idea of flasking it to potential club goers.

    But here at Miami Beach 411, we're not in the pockets of the club owners, so we really don't have to answer to them. We're here to provide a service to our readers (and more importantly, those that take the tours that for the most part, are not the club goers).

    And Coach, there is enough "serious illegal activity" going on in the clubs, much of it from the owners themselves, to use that phrase to describe sneaking a flask into a club.

    And I really doubt it could force the club to shut down.

    Let's get a grip here.
    thanks for thinking i get a percentage, I wish....I would have a lot more $$$ to go around...lol...but yes I do get paid from the club as well so its important to me that they make money so i can have a check.... anyway, lets all meet one day! ciao fabian

  15. #55
    Member Fabian G.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Miami nightlife on a budget

    Quote Originally Posted by sungal View Post
    Fabian wrote: "About the cost differene of alcohol to Walgreens and a club or bar, I explained it earlier."


    "They obviously have the right to charge more for alcohol than Walgreen's or Ted's." That's what I wrote.. so I get it.

    Anyway going out tonight and I think I'm gonna flask it! Assuming I come up with a good recipe...
    my bad...how about water in the flask...i will provide the liquor...lol...

  16. #56
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    Definitely come out to our next meetup, Fabian!

  17. #57
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    Fred, don't forget, Matt says things to infuriate people. He enjoys it. So no one owes him an apology for their responses to his posts, he enjoys the reactions he gets.

    Fabian, sungal and I would both like to meet you. Are you going to look after us though?

  18. #58
    Travel Advisor fredgarvin's Avatar
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    Lightbulb different point

    Quote Originally Posted by Jess View Post
    Fred, don't forget, Matt says things to infuriate people. He enjoys it. So no one owes him an apology for their responses to his posts, he enjoys the reactions he gets.

    Fabian, sungal and I would both like to meet you. Are you going to look after us though?
    No doubt Jess, but I have issues with accusations such as accusing one of writing while drunk.

    My point is that I think we're all (and I'm sure Fabian is too) above name calling here- and that's what I feel that comment was equal to. Disagreements and having issues with what people say is great, healthy, not to mention can be good reading.

  19. #59
    Senior Member Blackford Oakes's Avatar
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    Default Re: different point

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgarvin View Post
    No doubt Jess, but I have issues with accusations such as accusing one of writing while drunk.

    My point is that I think we're all (and I'm sure Fabian is too) above name calling here- and that's what I feel that comment was equal to. Disagreements and having issues with what people say is great, healthy, not to mention can be good reading.
    I agree Fred. No need to lecture a grad student on eco 101 either. It was quite a philliipic response. If one buys booze at any venue; why also pay for some some semi- nude bitch dancing on a raised cube ? Seems this type of business is not costing items properly.

    I'll take the the dance pit at Jacaranda in Sanibel over any club in Miami. Not only are you going to get value, you'll also be meet a better strata of people, whom are in better postion to afford bottle service- yet scoff a it.

    Matt - I'm with you 100% on watching your own greenbacks.
    Last edited by Blackford Oakes; 07-25-2010 at 05:08 PM.

  20. #60
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    Fabian, I'm not a fan of clubs (just personal taste) but yes I'd love to meet you someday at one of our meetups and I appreciate the good work you do here in helping our members with club info. I wish I had known you when I did a story for a dutch magazine on SoBe nightlife ... I know you could've helped me but I had to fend for myself as a journalist getting into clubs with a photographer.

    Also Fabian, girls who accept drinks from strangers with flasks are on Darwin's list ...

    Anyway, I think everyone is making a valid point. I really doubt that flasking is going to become an epidemic though and come on, Matt is not the first dude to have come up with the idea. What isn't published here, has been passed and is being passed along by word of mouth by many club-goers surely. Matt is only expressing what is already being done.

    I recently met a local mixologist who works at a major hotel bar that has a scene ... he explained to me what his produce costs were for two weeks ... yowza!!! Let me just say it was 4 figures. Keep that in mind when drinking one of those specialty drinks with herbs, fruits, etc; Not Wet Willie slush swill mind you here but really fine crafted cocktails with premium liquor. For that stuff, I can understand paying more ... I'd happily pay more because I'm buying something finer than a plain vodka martini.

    But yeah, paying $5 for a soda or $17 for a well vodka tonic just seems too much. That's paying for atmosphere, not the drink. That drink probably only costs the club owner about $5 or so.

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