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  1. #41
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    I personally like a majority of the clubs, but I also have to fly in just to go and party at them. The whole trip is centered around partying at night, then relaxing on the beach all day, and getting some dinner and partying again the next night!. I love that BUT

    If I lived there, it would get old fast, and I totally understand the reason for the club bashing, its stated very clearly in these posts and makes alot of sense. There has even been a time or too that I dont feel like dealing with it, and find myself/group hanging out at local bars avoiding the club scene that we traveled there for!

  2. #42
    Editor Christy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maria de los Angeles View Post
    Yansey, were you referring solely to Matt's article?

    Yes, a few people are into it and can afford to spend money there or they save up. But as a 40 something local Miamian, I can tell you I remember the days when clubbing was not such the ostentatious thing it is today -- Carlos remembers those days too.

    I for one am NOT a fan of clubs, but I respect everyone's opinion and everyone is entitled to their tastes and desired forms of entertainment.

    So I'm going to bash clubs right here. Why do I dislike them? To listen to horribly loud music, not being able to talk to my friends, be surrounded by a bunch of drug-crazed humping baboons (because the art of dance is completely lost these days and everyone dances like they're a hoe-bag stripper or like they're dry humping), be groped, given bullshit attitude because I'm not a skinny bitch, stand in line with a bunch of people who have to suck up to the doorman and pay half my rent in cocktails? You couldn't PAY ME enough to go to a club.

    Again, that's just my taste, and I hope you will respect that.

    If getting into a club was a PLEASANT, streamlined experience, I wouldn't have this opinion. But we get readers here who actually STRESS OUT about how they're going to do it. It's a club, for pete's sake, not admission into the gates of heaven. I find that so ridiculous. There are children starving in Africa and you are going to stress out about a club? Let's get a sense of perspective here.

    And I do like to dress up, but why do I have to do that for a club? In any case, even the freakin' Collins Avenue whores at 3 am look less skanky than the typical club chic ... this is not my idea of elegant or "dressing up" ... but there you go, that is the standard South Beach uniform for women.

    Let's face it, clubs are by their very nature elitist institutions. It is all about SEX and MONEY sells. It's that way around the world, not just South Beach. They are theatrical experiences in nature, where you go on a mental vacation and are surrounded by beautiful things (beautiful to some, obviously not to me). And again, that's all good, but you do need to see how this will turn off many people.

    Do you really think I would recommend someone to go to a club, when they can see a show at the Arscht Center, have a fabulous dinner at a five star gourmet restaurant, cocktails at a lounge and still have money to spare?

    Anyway, when I tell people about alternatives in entertainment, I don't feel that I'm bashing clubs, I'm just giving people advice on fun things to do involving music and adult beverages that isn't a club. There's so much more to Miami than clubbing.

    We are lucky to have honest people like Jess and Matt who will tell our readers like it is and give non-sponsored advice about clubs.
    Very entertaining post! And I read the whole thing at Sex and the Beach. Some people make going out to a club a bigger process than it is. I think the girl next to the velvet ropes looks great! Maria, the club experience you describe is more of a Heathrow or Klutch experience. The crowd at the nicer clubs is more civilized, well dressed, and for the most part dance with whoever they came with.

    Once you've been to a club more than twice it's pretty easy-get dressed, show up and maybe you'll have to wait a bit, maybe you won't, and go inside and have a fun time. If the wait is too long or you don't like the music or the crowd, just go elsewhere. It's not rocket science. And yes the drinks are expensive, but you get ripped off elsewhere in life. If you go to a baseball game, expensive restaurant, etc. aren't the drinks overpriced as well? And sure getting past the doorman can be a hassle, but once you're in isn't it nice that the crowd is the total opposite of the people you see surrounding you at the DMV?

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Meltzer View Post
    Coatbob - "sucks big fat hair frogs" may be my favorite euphemism of 2010
    I agree!!! I really did LOL at that one.

    I have to admit I've always avoided the SoBe clubs myself. My self-esteem is damaged enough without having to deal with the doormen!

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Miller View Post
    The point has already been made, but it obviously needs to be restated. Miami Beach night clubs are not country clubs.

    If you treat members at a country club the way these assholes treat customers at the clubs, you would get fired.
    And it's so obvious from this thread what the promoters are trying to say that it's nothing but a class system. That if you can't afford it, then you're not worthy.
    At least nightclubs don't turn people away at the door based on ethnicity..which yes, happens at country clubs.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Blackford Oakes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy View Post
    At least nightclubs don't turn people away at the door based on ethnicity..which yes, happens at country clubs.

    If you're a fat jew, you're really screwed. No golf in Augusta and no clubbing in SoBe.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maria de los Angeles View Post
    Well Yansey, here you have an opportunity to clarify everything. Tell us about the GOOD stuff that happens. But be prepared to be accountable. I really do appreciate the debate and let's keep on keeping it real.
    I'll drop in with a good experience. It was back when Cameo was called Crobar. We partied all night and staggered out right around the 5am closing bell. It really was a spectacular night. We live within walking distance and it was not until we got home and mostly ready for bed that we remembered we had left our Credit Card at the bar.

    Annette hustled back up there. They were well into the process of shutting down, of course, but the door guard let her in when she told her dilemma. Now this is where it gets crazy.

    The bartendress at the bar had closed out our account. She had kept our card for safe-keeping. She had not tried to sneak any extra drinks on it. She had NOT added any gratuity, even though they usually automatically add it. And she even remembered Annette as she walked up. Needless to say, Annette tipped her big in cash. It was very cool.

    I think the main issue is the generalizations. "The moral of the story: Everyone in South Beach associated with a nightclub is full of shit." I actually know lots of people associated with clubs in South Beach who are not full of shit. Some people have run into the scammers, and that is unfortunate. But painting people with the sins of others is just not cool. There ARE plenty of scumbags and they need to be called out. But there are also decent folks, and they should not be insulted unnecessarily.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Coach is on point! Nuff said! His ending paragraph is what i've been saying all along!

  8. #48
    Member Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by croatbob View Post
    u think its great that ur friends are parasites n just rely on stupid men to buy them drinks all nyt? wow what an achievement!
    From a anthroplogical point of view, I would say that clubs display standard inequality where rank is determined by gender, phenotype and financial resources. The club creates the allure of distinction and status (ooh VIP, I'm in Miami B*tch) for their consumer demographic (club goers, d-bags, rich kids), with a bit of chemical enhancement (alcohol, ecstasy). Certain gender groups are accesorized and deified by the clubs (hot women, dressed as quasi-hookers). The dominant gender group (doorman, promoters, managers, the majority of whom are male), establish norms and rules for access to spaces imbued with myth and symbolism (VIP lounge). These rules are imposed on the exploited gender group (male customers wiling to pay). The exploited group are divided into two, those who possess social capital (entourage members, "my daddy got me a beemer", "bro, this shirt costs me $600, bro"), and those who don't (man, they only pay me $6 n' hour at McDonald, I can't afford Mansion).

    So that's a social scientific description of the art of clubbing. Translated to English, it means that if you a doorman, manager, hot chick, d-bag or rich, you will love the club scene. If you're not any of these you'll probably hate it.

    I also know very good looking girls, who spend nothing at clubs, but always enjoy their outings. They get free entry and free drinks as long as they flirt a little with the patrons.

  9. #49
    Editor Matt Meltzer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jess View Post
    And I was spoilt with the English. Give me a night in Gatecrasher over any night in South Beach.

    (NOTE: I said South Beach! Not Miami. Space I love!)
    Well, maybe if we introduce you to the GM at Set you can start to relive those glory days. Otherwise, though I abhor a lot of the clubs, you can't compare your experiences at Gatecrasher with anything here.

  10. #50
    Editor Matt Meltzer's Avatar
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    Coach, your experience was at CROBAR. And CROBAR, was an awesome club. Big dance floor. Let lots of people in. Great Djs. Great sound. Cameo is complete shit.

    Tommy, my complaint is not with pricing, or even only letting in certain people. It's that big clubs had those policies 5-10 years ago, when they had big dance floors and let in about 5x as many people. And the parties were legendary. Now, its ALL about exclusion and overpricing. Why the shift? What was wrong with making a big party for lots of people, but still requiring that they look good and dress well? It's not like Level and Opium were letting people in in jerseys and baggy pants. NOBODY has answered me ths question, though I've posed it in these forums at least 10 times.

    And the focus on exclusion has given the people running the clubs even worse attitudes than they used to have. Give me Gilbert any day over these clowns.

    Girls who go out with $5 for the night are the same ones I "accidentally" spill vodka-cranberries on. They make me sick.

    Carlos, you are absolutely right. And the reason there's so much club-bashing on here? Our contributors are LOCALS. And, in the past few years, locals have zero interest in any of these table-and-bottle rackets TOG and its contemporaries are running. And it's not like people like me and Jess don't enjoy clubs. We LOVE clubs. But the clubs here treat people like shit, so why waste our money there.

    And, to finish on a racist-but-you-know-I'm-right-so-don't-even-bother-calling-me-out note, I was having a conversation the other night with a friend of mien who literally grew up in Miami nightlife. He was talking with his family, that owns a lot of spots around town, and the general consensus is that if this shit keeps up the Beach is going to be pretty much all Black within 5-10 years. Memorial Day, all year round. Somebody better wake the f--k up and start catering to something other than VIP culture.

  11. #51
    Member Maria de los Angeles's Avatar
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    UTS - LOL!!! Well Miami Beach was originally a highly racist town. Jews and blacks not allowed anywhere unless they were workers or servants.

    Mario, that was brilliant!

    Coach - I remember Crobar! Those were the days!

    Matt - right on, bro.

  12. #52
    Member croatbob's Avatar
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    went for a walk up lincoln last nyt and walked passed mansion at 1am and said screw it will try the priviledge card i got yesterday just out of curiosity. one of the doorman had no idea what it was, the 2nd let us in skipping the que then the door chick tried to slug us 50ea! lol i explained the card to her and she said it wasnt valid for the nyt. haha not sure if its one of there lock out events but i got a feelin the cards only goin to work when they want it to or when there are quiet or u get there early. needless to say i walked straight out again

  13. #53
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    I just got my card, too.

    Bob, the cards say specifically that there are blackout dates. Though it doesn't appear that last night was one of them: The Opium Group Blackout Dates

    As far as why the shift towards all-VIP? It's because the House music scene ate itself, as do all dance crazes (see also, "Disco") and now there are not enough of the general masses to support these clubs in the way they did 10 years ago. It's not like the clubs set the trends, they follow them. As they see their revenue decliining, they move to other formats to try to find new revenue.

    The other issue is the developers. As they noticed South Beach becoming popular, they moved in and bought everything up, jacking up real estate prices. That means it now costs a lot more to run a club than it did back in "the day". Why do you think the awesome owners of the awesome Crobar dumped it on TOG? Not because they were bored with making millions, for sure.

    At the same time, the music business crashed. Record sales are completely in the trash heap. The nightclubs, being somewhat in the music business, see the effect of this, as artists jack up their appearance fees to try to make up for lost revenue.

    Add in to all this, while the cost-of-doing-business is going up for the clubs, the Bush-recession hits. Now, "normal folk" are going out even less. So, where do they make up the lost business? The people who still have money. This means charging more to make up for lost volume.

    Certainly, there are TONS of clueless people working the grunt-work in the trenches of the club business, as both Matt and Bob ran into. But, that is true in pretty much every field that has customer service. Ever tried to get a service agent on the phone for your cell-phone service? Or insurance? You could make the same sweeping generalizations about those businesses, as well (and probably be more right than you are about the South Beach nightlife business).

  14. #54
    Member croatbob's Avatar
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    yeah i got a feelin that they will make up there own black out dates on the nite. all in all the cards still bullshit as they dont stand up to there offers

  15. #55
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    Good explanation Coach. Although if you think House music ate itself (and House is actually just one genre) go to Ultra or take a look at Winter Music conference. That audience is still there.

    Rents were already astronomical 5 years ago when clubs were good. So I don't know that that's really why clubs went to all-VIP.

    The loss of expendable income among middle-class type folks, though, makes some sense.

  16. #56
    Editor Matt Meltzer's Avatar
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    You know what? If I ever try this again I"m printing up the blackout dates and bringing them with me.

  17. #57
    Member croatbob's Avatar
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    whats the world gettin to that u need to take a briefcase with documents on a nyt out? lol

  18. #58
    Editor Matt Meltzer's Avatar
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    Hahaha. Perhaps bring an attorney with me too. Miami Clubs are the BESTTTT!!!!!!!!!

  19. #59
    Preferred Member juve78's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Beautiful guys…AMEN!

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    I'm really curious to see if you guys can get that stupid card to work, though I can totally understand you guys not wanting to waste a night putting up with the BS.

    Bait and switch tactics are a big pet peeve of mine, as aside from just walking away you're usually powerless when it happens.

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