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  1. #61
    Member Maria de los Angeles's Avatar
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    Speaking of cards, I've been tempted to pull the "I am an influential Miami blogger and I moderate a forum with over 11,000 members on Miami's premier travel website" card many times ... but I don't, because it's unprofessional and if a business screws up, people need to know about it.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    "Please note entry to all venues in tandem with any promotion or privilege access card is at the doorman's discretion. Dress code strictly enforced. Must be 21 and over. Please note, these dates are subject to change, and additional dates may be added at any time.

    Just FYI

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Meltzer View Post
    And, to finish on a racist-but-you-know-I'm-right-so-don't-even-bother-calling-me-out note, I was having a conversation the other night with a friend of mien who literally grew up in Miami nightlife. He was talking with his family, that owns a lot of spots around town, and the general consensus is that if this shit keeps up the Beach is going to be pretty much all Black within 5-10 years. Memorial Day, all year round. Somebody better wake the f--k up and start catering to something other than VIP culture.

    Are you serious??!!!


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  4. #64
    Travel Advisor fredgarvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by yanseyvaldes View Post
    "Please note entry to all venues in tandem with any promotion or privilege access card is at the doorman's discretion. Dress code strictly enforced. Must be 21 and over. Please note, these dates are subject to change, and additional dates may be added at any time.

    Just FYI

    you forgot "in the event of a water landing, your seat cushion can be used as a flotation device."

  5. #65
    Member Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by coach View Post
    I just got my card, too.

    Bob, the cards say specifically that there are blackout dates. Though it doesn't appear that last night was one of them: The Opium Group Blackout Dates

    As far as why the shift towards all-VIP? It's because the House music scene ate itself, as do all dance crazes (see also, "Disco") and now there are not enough of the general masses to support these clubs in the way they did 10 years ago. It's not like the clubs set the trends, they follow them. As they see their revenue decliining, they move to other formats to try to find new revenue.

    The other issue is the developers. As they noticed South Beach becoming popular, they moved in and bought everything up, jacking up real estate prices. That means it now costs a lot more to run a club than it did back in "the day". Why do you think the awesome owners of the awesome Crobar dumped it on TOG? Not because they were bored with making millions, for sure.

    At the same time, the music business crashed. Record sales are completely in the trash heap. The nightclubs, being somewhat in the music business, see the effect of this, as artists jack up their appearance fees to try to make up for lost revenue.

    Add in to all this, while the cost-of-doing-business is going up for the clubs, the Bush-recession hits. Now, "normal folk" are going out even less. So, where do they make up the lost business? The people who still have money. This means charging more to make up for lost volume.

    Certainly, there are TONS of clueless people working the grunt-work in the trenches of the club business, as both Matt and Bob ran into. But, that is true in pretty much every field that has customer service. Ever tried to get a service agent on the phone for your cell-phone service? Or insurance? You could make the same sweeping generalizations about those businesses, as well (and probably be more right than you are about the South Beach nightlife business).
    The Recording Industry collapse meant that not just House ate itself, but practically every commercial genre out there. I mean now, if you sell 300.000 records, that's considered great. We won't see anyone selling 5 million cds or more for a while, unless you that Bieber kid of Lady Gaga.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by yanseyvaldes View Post
    "Please note entry to all venues in tandem with any promotion or privilege access card is at the doorman's discretion. Dress code strictly enforced. Must be 21 and over. Please note, these dates are subject to change, and additional dates may be added at any time.

    Just FYI
    Hahaha, the cards are more useless than the wristbands that the street promotors hand out!

  7. #67
    Senior Member GandJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by yanseyvaldes View Post
    "Please note entry to all venues in tandem with any promotion or privilege access card is at the doorman's discretion. Dress code strictly enforced. Must be 21 and over. Please note, these dates are subject to change, and additional dates may be added at any time.

    Just FYI


    Yup. Thanks for the heads up. The fine print language basically says, "This card is worthless. You may be scammed and baited and switched at any point without warning, if we feel like it."

    WTF? It's no wonder these clubs come and go, and close down so often. No legitimate busniess operates like this. Can you imagine if you went to Best Buy to get a home theater system on an advertised big sale day, and then when you get there thinking you were going to get $1,000 off, they tell you "no deal..... no sale price today"! Even better, imagine that they gave others the sale price, but not YOU. You have to pay full price, and some others get the $1,000 off....at their whim and their discretion.
    Luckily, as a legitimate business, Best Buy does not operate like this. .... And, if they ever did, there would be many complaints.

    Glenn

  8. #68
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    OK guys... getting a bit out of hand here. It's a club. Not Best Buy! And it is the same anywhere, not just Miami. Any club will operate with this policy. All clubs in the UK have ROAR on the bottom, which stands for Right of Admission Reserved. Which means, no, they don't have to let you in. Private companies own these clubs, and they can let in who they want. The Privilege Card guidelines don't bother me in the slightest.

  9. #69
    Senior Member GandJ's Avatar
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    Jess - How about the on-the-spot created blackout dates, as some have apparently experienced? ... or, the bait and switch that Matt experienced? Those are more of the key issues that got this discussion rolling.

    Glenn

  10. #70
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    Here's what I don't get. We've got at least a couple supposedly good promoters on this board (I've never tried them, but they seem legit). Why would anyone who posts here regularly try to hit up a night without utilizing one of their services? I mean, unless you already knew someone inside.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    LOL! Beats me... Guess they really want prove the card is no good in their eyes instead of focusing on what to do to have a good time....

  12. #72
    Editor Matt Meltzer's Avatar
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    Well, in theory, the card should be good enough, if you can call and make a reservation yourself. And, yeah, I get it, a club can let in who it wants, like any private business. That's America.

    THAT BEING SAID....

    If you are going to make an offer to people, it is bad business to change things at the last minute if it doesn't suit you. Baiting and switching is bad business, period. And it's indefensible. The old Crobar Community card was NEVER refused, save for during Winter Music Conference when you had some world-renowned DJ playing there. And FYI, Cedric Gervais or Ivano Bellini does not count as "World Renowned." That was a club that treated its guests, and more importantly its local regulars, well. The Opium group is a poorly run business. And when you utilize unethical business practices, it ultimately leads to your demise.

    As I said, I will continue to steer as many people as I can away from TOG clubs, and will certainly never go there myself. This weekend someone suggested using his new card to go to Cameo. I suggested we hit up some clubs in Lauderdale instead. So now TOG is forcing money to be spent in other cities. The City owes you a great big Thank You.

  13. #73
    Senior Member GandJ's Avatar
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    <<...."Why would anyone who posts here regularly try to hit up a night without utilizing one of their [a promoter's] services?"...>>


    An article from the promoter(s) here on what promoters exactly do and provide would be helpful. Aren't promoters just for people who get bottle service? If this is incorrect, then as I said, we need an article to educate us that explains what you do, and how it works.

    That's one reason we have never used a promoter. We don't get bottle service. And, we have never been turned away at a club, either, even without a promoter.

    A second reason we have not used a promoter is this: In the Washington, DC area where we live, we can decide last minute to head out to any bar or club, and not have to worry about "scheduling" it ahead of time with a promoter, or arriving by a certain time, or giving it a second thought. It's easy. Just leave the house and go. In South beach, out of habit, we do the same thing. We might decide last minute we want to go to (fill in the blank), and then just go. We don't want to worry about "scheduling" things, having to arrive by (fill in the blank) time. That's what we do at work. We have scheduled meetings and need to be certain places by certain times. It just makes it less spontaneoius and less fun. On vacation, we like spontaneity.

    But, I'm willing to listen. Here's a typical situation for us: Janet and I go out to (fill in the club). I will probably have a a few beers, and she will probably have a Cosmo and a Mojitos. Up 'til now, we just go, .... then we order the drinks at the bar when we get there, enjoy the drinks and music, etc. No fuss, no muss.
    I'm willing to listen. How does a promoter make it easier or better for us in this situation?

    Thanks.

    Glenn
    Last edited by GandJ; 11-04-2010 at 08:57 PM.

  14. #74
    Senior Member GandJ's Avatar
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    <<..."And, yeah, I get it, a club can let in who it wants, like any private business."...>>


    I'm not sure that's completely true. Yes, if you were having a party at your house, you can keep out who you want. You can legally discriminate. But, if it is open to selling things to the public, even if it is privately owned, they can't discriminate.
    Can Five Guys hamburgers say, "No Blacks or fat guys allowed". No, they can't, even though they are a privately owned restaurant. They are not Gov't owned and they are not publicly traded, so they are private. But, they are open to selling things to the public. At your own house, you are not open to the public, so you can keep out anyone you want.

    So, are clubs somehow classified as if they are like someone's house? Or, is the law just overlooked?

    Glenn
    Last edited by GandJ; 11-04-2010 at 08:59 PM.

  15. #75
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    Glenn, there have been a couple good posts by promoters about how it all works. Hopefully someone with better search-fu than me can dig them up.

    As far as discriminating, as long as they are not doing it based on race, creed, or color, they can pretty much do so based on clothing. You are certainly allowed to maintain minimums of dress for your establishment. Ever seen those "no shirt, no shoes, no service" signs? As long as the discrimination is done on an individual basis and not based on any of the protected classes, it is mostly legal.

    And, given that the nightlife is a big part of the economy in Miami Beach, it's unlikely the code compliance is going to go looking for trouble. They only act if there is a complaint.

  16. #76
    Moderator Laurie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jess View Post
    The Privilege Card guidelines don't bother me in the slightest.
    Why would they? You get in without the card!!!

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Whats with the club bashing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    Why would they? You get in without the card!!!
    No, I have one and I use it. What I mean is, the guidelines in my opinion are not outrageous. They are the same for any club, in any city, in any country.

  18. #78
    Senior Member GandJ's Avatar
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    <<...."As far as discriminating, as long as they are not doing it based on race, creed, or color, they can pretty much do so based on clothing.".....>>


    I agree that they can have dress code, and I agree that they can not discriminate based on race, color, etc. But, I think the law goes beyond race and color. In my line of business, we can not discriminate based on race, color, national origin, religion, age, sex, familial status, or disability. I wouldn't be surprised if the same laws apply to businesses that sell to the public. It would be interestong to get an answer from a civil rights lawyer on this issue.

    Glenn

  19. #79
    Editor Carlos Miller's Avatar
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    There are also laws on bait and switch tactics.

  20. #80
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    Glenn, that's right. And none of the clubs discriminate based on that, at least not on an overt basis. And, I bet if you pressed them, they really do not. They discriminate based on "beauty" (quality of dress, grooming and physique) and your ability to spend a wad of cash, both of which are legitimate forms of discrimination in America. If you show up on any nightclub's doorstep with a wad of 100 dollar bills, I guarantee you will get in no matter your race, color, national origin, religion, age, sex, familial status, or disability.

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